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radioThese are reader comments for the article 'Why Do Christian Ministers Fail?'
Reader Comments
Posted by Brad Hawkes in Birmingham @ 17:50 on Aug 21 2008
Thanks Mal for your wisdom and maturity.
Let's all learn not to worship or exalt anyone but Jesus himself, the only one who will never deceive us or disappoint us.
Thanks Mal for your wisdom and maturity.
Let's all learn not to worship or exalt anyone but Jesus himself, the only one who will never deceive us or disappoint us.
Posted by Kevin Seiuli in Sydney, Australia @ 17:41 on Aug 21 2008
Encouraging and inspirational insight Mal.
For those who are still irate & infuriated & unforgiving, Here's Romans 12:9-19,21
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
To end off this marathon of a post (please accept my apologies), Here's the 1st verse & chorus of Reverend Al Green's Song "The Message is Love".
1st VERSE:
All around the world there are people crying,
Can't find something to believe,
They put so much faith in people who are lying, They're so easy to deceive
It ain't no mystery, you know the words to set you free,
There for all the world to see,
When you got it on your side, There's no reason left to hide,
You've got to give it to receive
CHORUS:
Love is the message and the message is love,
From the streets to the mountains to the heavens above,
Tell everybody what you're dreaming of,
Tell them Love is the message and the message is love
Encouraging and inspirational insight Mal.
For those who are still irate & infuriated & unforgiving, Here's Romans 12:9-19,21
9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
To end off this marathon of a post (please accept my apologies), Here's the 1st verse & chorus of Reverend Al Green's Song "The Message is Love".
1st VERSE:
All around the world there are people crying,
Can't find something to believe,
They put so much faith in people who are lying, They're so easy to deceive
It ain't no mystery, you know the words to set you free,
There for all the world to see,
When you got it on your side, There's no reason left to hide,
You've got to give it to receive
CHORUS:
Love is the message and the message is love,
From the streets to the mountains to the heavens above,
Tell everybody what you're dreaming of,
Tell them Love is the message and the message is love
Posted by Mike in in Nashville TN @ 16:34 on Aug 21 2008
Hey Mal. Great article - thanks. So often, Christians act like rats off a sinking ship - we 'run away run away' from controversy. But unfortunately, in the running, we stop, look back, and throw stones.
I am heartily disappointed in Mike G - however, I rejoice that he IS part of the Kingdom of God - for if such a thing disqualifies him from God's love, then I (and the rest of you) are out on our ears as well.
Many people I know will (and do) feel broken by Mike G's admission - notwithstanding his wife, parents and those close - but, we love and serve a God who was broken on our behalf. Who poured out his grace on those of us who don't deserve it, including Mike.
Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin
Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin
Father - thankyou for your grace. We do the most foolish things sometimes, but you never turn away from us - never abandon us - never forsake us. And your promise still holds firm - that you will be with us always, even to the end of the age. God, I speak your great peace not only into Mike's life, but into that of his families lives as well. You are the great Healer, still... and we pray for your healing. Wrap them in your arms God - never let them go. In the great and marvellous name of Jesus... Amen
Hey Mal. Great article - thanks. So often, Christians act like rats off a sinking ship - we 'run away run away' from controversy. But unfortunately, in the running, we stop, look back, and throw stones.
I am heartily disappointed in Mike G - however, I rejoice that he IS part of the Kingdom of God - for if such a thing disqualifies him from God's love, then I (and the rest of you) are out on our ears as well.
Many people I know will (and do) feel broken by Mike G's admission - notwithstanding his wife, parents and those close - but, we love and serve a God who was broken on our behalf. Who poured out his grace on those of us who don't deserve it, including Mike.
Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin
Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin
Father - thankyou for your grace. We do the most foolish things sometimes, but you never turn away from us - never abandon us - never forsake us. And your promise still holds firm - that you will be with us always, even to the end of the age. God, I speak your great peace not only into Mike's life, but into that of his families lives as well. You are the great Healer, still... and we pray for your healing. Wrap them in your arms God - never let them go. In the great and marvellous name of Jesus... Amen
Posted by nurse natti in Australia @ 15:17 on Aug 21 2008
For anyone who has kids here....have you ever told your kids "if you be honest and tell me the truth I will forgive you"?
I know that I have.
I cannot imagine how hard it must have been for Mike to come out, as he did, and confess his sin.
Who are we to throw stones?
Maybe this is exactly why we should never look to the 'donkey' but to Jesus...
Maybe that is one thing we can say to our non believing friends.
Isn't Christianity all about CHRIST...
Christ not only entertained sinners, but he LOVED them unconditionally. The pharisees had it all 'worked out'..."You should do this, you shouldn't do that".
But Jesus came and was REAL.
We ARE all human.
We ALL sin.
We are ALL forgiven, when we confess our sin before God. Do any of the people criticizing Mike know for a fact that he hasn't done this?
Thank you God for your grace.
Thank you for the Holy Spirit, who can give us the words to say when non-believers ask about such things.
A beautiful article, Mal.
For anyone who has kids here....have you ever told your kids "if you be honest and tell me the truth I will forgive you"?
I know that I have.
I cannot imagine how hard it must have been for Mike to come out, as he did, and confess his sin.
Who are we to throw stones?
Maybe this is exactly why we should never look to the 'donkey' but to Jesus...
Maybe that is one thing we can say to our non believing friends.
Isn't Christianity all about CHRIST...
Christ not only entertained sinners, but he LOVED them unconditionally. The pharisees had it all 'worked out'..."You should do this, you shouldn't do that".
But Jesus came and was REAL.
We ARE all human.
We ALL sin.
We are ALL forgiven, when we confess our sin before God. Do any of the people criticizing Mike know for a fact that he hasn't done this?
Thank you God for your grace.
Thank you for the Holy Spirit, who can give us the words to say when non-believers ask about such things.
A beautiful article, Mal.
Posted by john citizen in australia @ 15:08 on Aug 21 2008
am i the only person who thinks this is bigger than just one guy making a mistake? if it wasn't Mike G it was going to be somebody else. It was only a matter of time before someone came along and exploited the system. This culture that told us that all you needed to stand above the rest was bucketloads of charisma and the ability to pull a crowd. maybe now the leaders of our movement will have the balls to put a stop to this preposterous celebrity culture in the body of christ. well at least those that aren't too busy trying to be famous themselves.
am i the only person who thinks this is bigger than just one guy making a mistake? if it wasn't Mike G it was going to be somebody else. It was only a matter of time before someone came along and exploited the system. This culture that told us that all you needed to stand above the rest was bucketloads of charisma and the ability to pull a crowd. maybe now the leaders of our movement will have the balls to put a stop to this preposterous celebrity culture in the body of christ. well at least those that aren't too busy trying to be famous themselves.
Reply by Finulla in Adelaide @ 02:07 on Aug 23 2008
Totally agree with that one. If people are angry let them vent. It is a human response to deception. I am certainly praying for the family who must feel the hurt the most.
Totally agree with that one. If people are angry let them vent. It is a human response to deception. I am certainly praying for the family who must feel the hurt the most.
Reply by Kelly in Adelaide @ 00:10 on Aug 22 2008
Well said Brad! For far too long we have taught people, especially our young people to look to those in leadership, or those with a charismatic personality. What about teaching them Christ first and that those who preach Christ are merely servants fulfilling their calling through Christ.
Well said Brad! For far too long we have taught people, especially our young people to look to those in leadership, or those with a charismatic personality. What about teaching them Christ first and that those who preach Christ are merely servants fulfilling their calling through Christ.
Posted by Brad Kelly in Australia @ 14:26 on Aug 21 2008
Thanks for an article that gives us all a starting point for thinking through the issues. I have been thinking about this all day and discussing it with friends, and I still am not any closer to understanding why. I hope that he can be restored in love, and that this prompts a discussion of some of the wider issues that might have triggered this lie - whatever they may be. Perhaps, as you suggest in your article, the craving for the adoration of a crowd?
I agree with the other comment that young people will be most hurt by this, and as a Christian school teacher, I will certainly be saving the link and sending any young people to this article when it will no doubt be discussed.
Cheers, Brad
Thanks for an article that gives us all a starting point for thinking through the issues. I have been thinking about this all day and discussing it with friends, and I still am not any closer to understanding why. I hope that he can be restored in love, and that this prompts a discussion of some of the wider issues that might have triggered this lie - whatever they may be. Perhaps, as you suggest in your article, the craving for the adoration of a crowd?
I agree with the other comment that young people will be most hurt by this, and as a Christian school teacher, I will certainly be saving the link and sending any young people to this article when it will no doubt be discussed.
Cheers, Brad
Posted by DK in Australia @ 14:13 on Aug 21 2008
Matthew 7:16-20 reads:
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus by their fruit you will recognize them."
Doesn't anyone here believe in the Doctrine of Regeneration? How about Sanctification?
Does anyone here even know what that IS anymore - what it means and how that applies in this situation?
Rom 6:15-18 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
"God will maintain his Holiness - we will give it willingly, or He will maintain it - but at our expense" - Richard Owen Roberts.
Matthew 7:16-20 reads:
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus by their fruit you will recognize them."
Doesn't anyone here believe in the Doctrine of Regeneration? How about Sanctification?
Does anyone here even know what that IS anymore - what it means and how that applies in this situation?
Rom 6:15-18 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
"God will maintain his Holiness - we will give it willingly, or He will maintain it - but at our expense" - Richard Owen Roberts.
Posted by Rick in Sydney @ 12:45 on Aug 21 2008
It is indeed a very sad day for the cause of Christ and for all concerned. How tempting it would be to pick up a stone and throw it. Yet how wrong that would be too. Thank you Mal for a balanced and thought provoking article.
It is indeed a very sad day for the cause of Christ and for all concerned. How tempting it would be to pick up a stone and throw it. Yet how wrong that would be too. Thank you Mal for a balanced and thought provoking article.
Posted by Karen in Adelaide @ 12:23 on Aug 21 2008
Thank you Mal, this is something which is very hard to come to terms with.
I would just like to say I just cannot understand how a condition like this could be faked. Mike spent a time in hospital, receiving treatment for this condition and I understand his family were with him when he was diagnosed. Plus he has had broken bones because of his condition.
I am looking forward to more detail and find it sad that when someone does something so good (in his work for our youth) that no one cares - but if someone fails then we allow the media to plaster it all over the world causing embarrassement for those involved. This news will go away and the media will be onto the next event. I just feel there is more to this than we are being told at the moment.
I thank you for your words and your encouragement to people to not judge Mike and to continue to pray for him as this is just a different kind of illness, and deserves the same prayers and kindness from us.
If it was totally fraud then I am proud of Mike for coming out and telling us all. This took guts and our youth should value what it took for Mike to speak out.
Let the first person who casts a stone be the one who has never sinned! For all have sinned and God so loved the world he came to save sinners. The healthy do not need a doctor but the sick people do - And they do not deserve our judgement.
My love and my prayers go out to Mike, Danny, Sharon and all their family as well as all the congregation at Edge Church.
Thank you Mal, this is something which is very hard to come to terms with.
I would just like to say I just cannot understand how a condition like this could be faked. Mike spent a time in hospital, receiving treatment for this condition and I understand his family were with him when he was diagnosed. Plus he has had broken bones because of his condition.
I am looking forward to more detail and find it sad that when someone does something so good (in his work for our youth) that no one cares - but if someone fails then we allow the media to plaster it all over the world causing embarrassement for those involved. This news will go away and the media will be onto the next event. I just feel there is more to this than we are being told at the moment.
I thank you for your words and your encouragement to people to not judge Mike and to continue to pray for him as this is just a different kind of illness, and deserves the same prayers and kindness from us.
If it was totally fraud then I am proud of Mike for coming out and telling us all. This took guts and our youth should value what it took for Mike to speak out.
Let the first person who casts a stone be the one who has never sinned! For all have sinned and God so loved the world he came to save sinners. The healthy do not need a doctor but the sick people do - And they do not deserve our judgement.
My love and my prayers go out to Mike, Danny, Sharon and all their family as well as all the congregation at Edge Church.
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
I am still shocked about this news. I am not trying to create more controversy here. but i'm really just trying to grapple this situation as a genuine believer.
I guess what I feel uncomfortable is, that we have focused so much on Grace that the severity of 'Sin' we commit - and I don't mean just what Mike did - but also what we ALL do - everyday - is downplayed... by far. Actions that are deemed as "sin" need to be condemened - don't they? We don't condemn the person BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN (because all of us fall short and all of us who believe have been redeemed by Him alone), but we can't brush over the fact that one has sinned. and it is of a significant impact when this sin plays a domino effect and causes so many stumble and fall.
When we are taught not to judge: then should we not act as if to assume that God will make lightly of the mistakes we make? Throughout the OT and NT, God has shown mercy, forgiveness and love to those who truly repent of their sins... but the requirement is that one truly repents - and who are we to know if a person truly repents or not?
Well, at the moment, we have no further background to Mike's story to know - so only God knows... and even if we have the "background" - who can fathom how God will deal with him? (this isn't to say Mike isn't truly repentant, I'm just trying to objectively grasp this verse: 1 Corinthians 4:5 "judge nothing before the appointed time")