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radioThese are reader comments for the article 'Why Do Christian Ministers Fail?'
Reader Comments
Posted by Cameron Jones in London @ 01:26 on Aug 22 2008
A few years ago I was an ordinary teenager in Perth and he looked after me, encouraged me, gave me money, lifts and often I would crash at his house when I was struggling with the issues of life. He rarely had money back then and looked out for a lot of people like me.
To me he was an inspiration, both from the platform, but also on a personal level. Like a lot people out there. I too am shocked at what I discovered when a close friend called me what had happened.
All the same, my life is different because of him and the way he encouraged me to look to Jesus Christ and God. I do feel confused and can't really comment what he has done in the last few years.
Cameron
A few years ago I was an ordinary teenager in Perth and he looked after me, encouraged me, gave me money, lifts and often I would crash at his house when I was struggling with the issues of life. He rarely had money back then and looked out for a lot of people like me.
To me he was an inspiration, both from the platform, but also on a personal level. Like a lot people out there. I too am shocked at what I discovered when a close friend called me what had happened.
All the same, my life is different because of him and the way he encouraged me to look to Jesus Christ and God. I do feel confused and can't really comment what he has done in the last few years.
Cameron
Reply by Grace Summerton in Adelaide @ 11:43 on Aug 22 2008
Hi Cameron just a thought on your comments, always remember the goodness of ones actions in love as this will help you to remember christ action for you on the cross. i can honestly say when your eyes are fixed on jesus there is no confusion,but there is a deeper understanding of those who falter. Be encouraged and know that God is in control of your preciouse life
Hi Cameron just a thought on your comments, always remember the goodness of ones actions in love as this will help you to remember christ action for you on the cross. i can honestly say when your eyes are fixed on jesus there is no confusion,but there is a deeper understanding of those who falter. Be encouraged and know that God is in control of your preciouse life
Posted by Glen in Newcastle @ 01:05 on Aug 22 2008
Mike will suffer humiliation. And the fact is, he'll deserve it.
Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction. What did Larry Norman say? "Grace isn't a place to wipe your feet". Nowadays I see it used as a rug to sweep under the dirty little secrets and hide them away.
Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position. If a bank manager embezzles money they don't move him to another branch, or promote him, or look forward to soon seeing him back in the position.
Sure, we're the church, we're different. If or when Mike is ready he can come back and be a part of the congregation. Rather than your family and their friends fast track your restoration process and get you back on stage.
Mike will suffer humiliation. And the fact is, he'll deserve it.
Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction. What did Larry Norman say? "Grace isn't a place to wipe your feet". Nowadays I see it used as a rug to sweep under the dirty little secrets and hide them away.
Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position. If a bank manager embezzles money they don't move him to another branch, or promote him, or look forward to soon seeing him back in the position.
Sure, we're the church, we're different. If or when Mike is ready he can come back and be a part of the congregation. Rather than your family and their friends fast track your restoration process and get you back on stage.
Reply by Allan in Wollongong @ 13:07 on Aug 22 2008
Glen, you wrote....Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction.
I'm not sure what you mean by this but Forgiveness should be second nature shouldn't it? I cant understand a single person who would claim the forgiveness of Christ then not expect it for others. There needs to be accountability...true, but of course Mike should be forgiven! not as a knee-jerk reaction but because it is our responsibility or obligation to forgive!
You also wrote......Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position.......who is worthy of the position? my understanding is that we have ALL fallen short of being worthy.
I find it hard to understand what Mike has done, but i find it harder still to understand the bitterness and anger that seems to be coming from some people. Words of anger will not fix the problem they will infuriate an already painful situation and help to further damage.
Of course forgive and forgive and forgive again, those that choose not to only damage themselves.
Glen, you wrote....Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction.
I'm not sure what you mean by this but Forgiveness should be second nature shouldn't it? I cant understand a single person who would claim the forgiveness of Christ then not expect it for others. There needs to be accountability...true, but of course Mike should be forgiven! not as a knee-jerk reaction but because it is our responsibility or obligation to forgive!
You also wrote......Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position.......who is worthy of the position? my understanding is that we have ALL fallen short of being worthy.
I find it hard to understand what Mike has done, but i find it harder still to understand the bitterness and anger that seems to be coming from some people. Words of anger will not fix the problem they will infuriate an already painful situation and help to further damage.
Of course forgive and forgive and forgive again, those that choose not to only damage themselves.
Posted by Louisa @ 23:35 on Aug 21 2008
This article has really made me think..
A few friends told me about Mike this evening and I couldn't believe it... I didn't understand at all and I felt a little cheated.
But i believe the Lord can use this for good. To stop people depending on leaders and making people celebrities and actually fix their eyes on Jesus and make Him their hero... after all, He's the one we should be worshipping.
God has been drawing me to seek Him and only Him just recently and where this may shake people's faith, I pray God uses it to draw his people to Him. Then these sorts of things will not impact people's faith in Jesus, but drive them to seek His face.
It has also made me realise God's grace more and more and as many people have said, not to judge as we've all sinned and fallen short of God's standards but we have a God whose love is unconditional and his grace is enough to cover every one of our sins... Thank you Jesus... we'd be lost without You!
Who am I to judge Mike, or anyone else... Judging is not my job, but support, love and encouragement is.
I hope Mike makes a statement to explain how this happened but if he doesn't, I'll be ok.. I have my Jesus and He's all I need!
This article has really made me think..
A few friends told me about Mike this evening and I couldn't believe it... I didn't understand at all and I felt a little cheated.
But i believe the Lord can use this for good. To stop people depending on leaders and making people celebrities and actually fix their eyes on Jesus and make Him their hero... after all, He's the one we should be worshipping.
God has been drawing me to seek Him and only Him just recently and where this may shake people's faith, I pray God uses it to draw his people to Him. Then these sorts of things will not impact people's faith in Jesus, but drive them to seek His face.
It has also made me realise God's grace more and more and as many people have said, not to judge as we've all sinned and fallen short of God's standards but we have a God whose love is unconditional and his grace is enough to cover every one of our sins... Thank you Jesus... we'd be lost without You!
Who am I to judge Mike, or anyone else... Judging is not my job, but support, love and encouragement is.
I hope Mike makes a statement to explain how this happened but if he doesn't, I'll be ok.. I have my Jesus and He's all I need!
Posted by L.C in England @ 22:50 on Aug 21 2008
and thank you aswell, Mal for this insight. Of course, as soon as my mind starts to try and comes to terms with things like this.. it just wanders into doubt and distress. That's, I guess where the enemy gets his grip on us.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I can only fear God more through these situations.
and thank you aswell, Mal for this insight. Of course, as soon as my mind starts to try and comes to terms with things like this.. it just wanders into doubt and distress. That's, I guess where the enemy gets his grip on us.
Thanks for the encouraging words. I can only fear God more through these situations.
Posted by JustinRobinson in Perth, Western Australia @ 22:48 on Aug 21 2008
We have heard this news and have read in shock. Christians of all different backgrounds are either slamming Pastor Michael or encouraging him. The truth of the matter is that it did not come as a shock to God. God knew this would happen, nothing surprises God. I still see Michael as a pastor. He made a mistake that is true, but who hasn't? Lets look at the situation in God's eyes. God loves Pastor Michael unconditionally and we should too. Romans 3:23 tells it like it is. We have all sinned, before Christ and after receiving Christ. Lets pray to our Father that He restores Pastor Michael to the level he was at before. To God be the glory in Jesus mighty name...
We have heard this news and have read in shock. Christians of all different backgrounds are either slamming Pastor Michael or encouraging him. The truth of the matter is that it did not come as a shock to God. God knew this would happen, nothing surprises God. I still see Michael as a pastor. He made a mistake that is true, but who hasn't? Lets look at the situation in God's eyes. God loves Pastor Michael unconditionally and we should too. Romans 3:23 tells it like it is. We have all sinned, before Christ and after receiving Christ. Lets pray to our Father that He restores Pastor Michael to the level he was at before. To God be the glory in Jesus mighty name...
Posted by Geoffrey Khoo in Hamilton, New Zealand @ 21:29 on Aug 21 2008
I can't deny that I'm quite shocked and disappointed by all this. I have spoken highly of Michael, from what I have personally heard from his father, Danny. Now I need to take that back, etc, blah but that is my own problem and I need to deal with that.
The big question that goes through my mind is however, "WHY?" How could one think to go through a deception like this and not have it eventually exposed? I feel for the church in general, as the media will have a circus over this. I feel for those who do not yet know Christ, that another potential block to them accepting Him as Lord and Saviour has been erected.
I definitely agree that we shouldn't shoot the wounded. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have nothing bad to say about or to Michael but if I were to meet him, I would definitely ask...
"What were you thinking?"
I can't deny that I'm quite shocked and disappointed by all this. I have spoken highly of Michael, from what I have personally heard from his father, Danny. Now I need to take that back, etc, blah but that is my own problem and I need to deal with that.
The big question that goes through my mind is however, "WHY?" How could one think to go through a deception like this and not have it eventually exposed? I feel for the church in general, as the media will have a circus over this. I feel for those who do not yet know Christ, that another potential block to them accepting Him as Lord and Saviour has been erected.
I definitely agree that we shouldn't shoot the wounded. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have nothing bad to say about or to Michael but if I were to meet him, I would definitely ask...
"What were you thinking?"
Posted by san in Malaysia @ 20:33 on Aug 21 2008
Thank you for sharing. I'm probably one of the young ones who were pretty much affected by it.
But truly right now, instead of feeling all so disappointed, we should joint our hearts together in prayer not only to even uphold their ps danny's family in prayers and at the same time to even pray for all the churches globally.
Right now, at this point, we should not lose sight from God. Truly this is a time where many faith will be tested and challenged. I pray that they will grow stronger in God.
God bless you.
Thank you for sharing. I'm probably one of the young ones who were pretty much affected by it.
But truly right now, instead of feeling all so disappointed, we should joint our hearts together in prayer not only to even uphold their ps danny's family in prayers and at the same time to even pray for all the churches globally.
Right now, at this point, we should not lose sight from God. Truly this is a time where many faith will be tested and challenged. I pray that they will grow stronger in God.
God bless you.
Posted by Dan in Japan @ 19:22 on Aug 21 2008
No need to heap scorn on the guy people, I am sure he is doing that enough himself.
That said.......why are people praising him for coming out and admitting the fraud? Though it isn't written anywhere yet, it is just as likely that he confessed under threat of being exposed.
No need to heap scorn on the guy people, I am sure he is doing that enough himself.
That said.......why are people praising him for coming out and admitting the fraud? Though it isn't written anywhere yet, it is just as likely that he confessed under threat of being exposed.
Posted by still confused (2) in melbourne @ 19:04 on Aug 21 2008
And I also keep in mind what Paul wrote in Romans 5:9-13 about expelling the immoral brothers.
vs 9: "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral... But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother bus is sexually immoral..."
vs 12: "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
What am I supposed to make out of these verses? (this isn't a rhetorical question. I am genuinely asking) And in 2 Corinth 11:13-15:
"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."
This incident has challenged me: how does Love and Grace sit with Discernment and being Cautious not to be "deceived by the serpent's cunning"?
But... in the midst of all my questions, I will still pray for Mike, his family and all those affected in this incidence.
I think our whole body has been somehow shaken. But hopefully, after this shake, more impurities will be shaken away from our body to leave what can't be shaken away...
And I also keep in mind what Paul wrote in Romans 5:9-13 about expelling the immoral brothers.
vs 9: "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral... But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother bus is sexually immoral..."
vs 12: "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
What am I supposed to make out of these verses? (this isn't a rhetorical question. I am genuinely asking) And in 2 Corinth 11:13-15:
"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."
This incident has challenged me: how does Love and Grace sit with Discernment and being Cautious not to be "deceived by the serpent's cunning"?
But... in the midst of all my questions, I will still pray for Mike, his family and all those affected in this incidence.
I think our whole body has been somehow shaken. But hopefully, after this shake, more impurities will be shaken away from our body to leave what can't be shaken away...
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
Men with frailties and limitations are the same ones that God has decided to use so that the surpassing glory may be unto him and not us. It's very important to keep perspective that the messenger is not the message and therefore his fallibility does not nullify the harvest that has come as a result of his obedience now that he has hit a pothole on his way to destiny. He is as anointed and gifted today as he was a couple of years ago because the calling and gift of God is without repentance. As one of us I say lets carry him from the battle front and dress his wounds. We are not of those who rejoice when one of us fails because we all have a common enemy who wants reap at all costs. To the Guglielmucci family I say this too shall pass... Lift your eyes to Him who is constant in this changing world. Thank you Mal for your great insight, I look forward to seeing you at the Hillsong Men's Conference. Shalom!