MARTYN JOSEPH bares his soul in conversation with Tony Cummings.

Martyn: Mmm. I think if you're very close to someone and that person is close to you and you treat one another as people do when they are close - perhaps if they are involved in something that is different to the way you're being treated it is hard to perhaps think of it as actually happening or even see it. As people do when they are close to someone they go straight to their defence and try to see the other side of the story, that's what I did.

Tony: So when did you face up to what was happening?

Martyn: Just after the Mega tour, about November 1988. I got the band together that I wanted to keep and I drew closer to these guys as individuals rather than just session musicians I'd hired in. I began to hear some of their frustrations and problems and could not ignore what was going on. I began to take more of an interest in what these people were saying and began to realise that in fact it was the truth, there were problems. Just talking to other people in the different spheres of the ministry, or whatever you want to call it, that yes there were problems and I really needed to make a bit of a decision.

Tony: Aren't you glossing over things? Isn't it true that the company was rotten at the core?

Martyn: Yes there were things that I think were wrong - rotten to the core is perhaps an exaggeration. I mean they weren't good things, but yes there were certain things happening that on a moral basis I could no longer defend. I think that's the best way I can put it. I'm not going to come out and say that everything they did was wrong because that's not true.

Tony: There were rumours that Kevin Hoy threatened to sue.

Martyn: It turned sour when I tried to leave. They were talking about taking me to court to fulfil contractual obligations which I felt I wasn't duty bound to go along with.

Tony: What did all this do to you and Sue emotionally. Did it leave you bitter for instance?

Martyn: I felt very saddened by it; I mean there might have been moments of bitterness. I think anger would be a better word. I don't know if they felt the same way - but yes there were times when I was very disillusioned by what was taking place. I have to analyse my own behaviour and check out that what I did was correct as well and I feel there may have been shortcomings on both sides. But I don't think there were too many on my side, certainly other people wouldn't who were around at the time.

Tony: Some critics have observed that your 'Treasure The Question' album was your first really decent recording. How did you come to record in the States?

Martyn: When touring Australia with White Heart I met up with Tommy Simms (the eventual producer of 'Treasure The Question') and we got on very well. He said what everyone was saying that what I did was great live but the records just didn't stand up. So, I rang Kevin, from Australia in fact, and said look I'd like to consider doing the album in America with Tommy Simms. And he was great. We ended up doing it over there. I think the difference speaks for itself. It was much better in terms of the sound. It did begin to get me more acclaim in certain areas - such as the Greenbelt people.

Tony: But you played Greenbelt before that.

Martyn: I played Greenbelt four times, first on the Fringe with a band called Mango Chutney (1982) then, when Ears And Eyes started, I played in the tent. And the next year I played mainstage third on the top on the Saturday I think it was. I've got a tape of that performance and some of the things I said were you know, well I wished I hadn't said them. So when this change ('Treasure The Question') came about I got a certain acceptance. What Greenbelt like to do is set people thinking and here was somebody who'd actually turned in the public eye.

Tony: What would you say to people who accuse Greenbelt of being a Christian sell-out where the message of the gospel has been usurped by a limited call for social activism? Isn't it true to say you'll get more acclaim from the Greenbelt hierarchy if you stop singing about Jesus?