Jon Bellamy spoke with Andrew Boyd

Andrew Boyd

Persecution is a little talked about topic in the UK. It's kind of like the silent 'P' word; but persecution of Christians is intensifying in many countries around the world, from militant Islam and Communism to Hindu and Buddhist worlds. Christian Solidarity Worldwide, Release International and Open Doors have all been working closely to support persecuted Christians. On May 1st in Belfast, all three groups came together to make a joint declaration to stand with the persecuted church. To find out more about this event and the subject matter of persecution Jonathan Bellamy spoke with Andrew Boyd from Release International.

Jonathan: Persecution isn't something we talk about too often here in the UK at large is it?

Andrew: Well it's not something most of us face in the UK; so we're quite comfortable which is a great thing. We have a remarkable responsibility that goes with that freedom, to use it very wisely.

Jonathan: Tell us a little bit about persecution then, because like you say we're not used to it here in the UK; but in vast parts of the world, it's a real issue Christians have to deal with. What is the scale of it worldwide?

Andrew: It's very difficult to put a figure on it, because it's a little bit like asking the Government how many illegal immigrants are there in the UK; they don't know, because if they knew they wouldn't be here. So if you were to ask a country like China, how many people are you persecuting, they'll tell you, none at all, we don't persecute anybody; which is just not true. So it's very hard to pin down. It's an absolute wet finger in the air figure here, but it's been said that something like two hundred and fifty million Christians around the world, face one degree of pressure or another. Obviously, at the lowest end it is where it becomes difficult to say that you're a Christian. At the worse end of it is where people are dying for their faith. So a lot of us are living under that in different parts of the world and in many cases it's becoming more extreme, which is very worrying. So some of the places we're particularly concerned about at the moment are Nigeria where there's a lot of violence erupting and also Pakistan which is becoming a more and more unstable country. Odd thing though, because Pakistan is an Islamic Republic; and yet it's militant Islamists who don't see it as Islamic enough, who are attacking Christians and driving them out of their homes in some cases.

Jonathan: What kind of work do you do as Release International; and I assume Open Doors and Christian Solidarity Worldwide do similar work. How do you engage?

Andrew: Well let me tell you how we differ and how we're similar and mention the May 1st event. It was absolutely marvellous to be able to stand shoulder to shoulder with Open Doors and with Christian Solidarity Worldwide and Release International up there together, because we're not in competition with each other. What we're doing is we're serving in different ways different groups of people. So Christian Solidarity, I have had the privilege of working for them in the past. They do a wonderful job of advocacy. It's tremendously important the work they do in lobbying governments, lobbying parliament; bringing pressure to bear at a political level. Going into nations where there is difficulty; finding out tremendously important factual information; gathering evidence so they can take it to the courts. Open Doors and Release International are quite similar in many ways. We differ from Christian Solidarity in that we're also mission focused. So Open Doors is very well known for smuggling Bibles into different nations; that's how they began. They will support persecuted Christians in different countries. Release does the same kind of thing; they don't tend to smuggle too many Bibles in; but what we do is we support pastors in different nations. We support prisoners, their wives and families, because in many countries, if the husband is in jail, he's the breadwinner. The family, often quite large families, can go completely unsupported. There's no state to support them. So we get involved in practical work like that. So in Nigeria for example where Christians have been burned out of their homes; we've been going - working with partners on the ground - we don't kind of fly in like the man from Del Monte, do it all and then come back out; we work with very dedicated Christians on the ground in these nations. So in Nigeria we've been helping to put roofs back on houses that have been burnt out. In Pakistan we're supporting families of Christians where people have been attacked and they've lost some family members. We're also bringing Christian literature into those nations as well and working with training. So in Iran for example; it's a very difficult country Iran. I can't talk in any detail about it because it would be too dangerous for the people there; but we're supporting Christian women in Iran, very much second class citizens. We're backing them and we're giving them training. We're also supporting others in Iran too. So it's very much - the gospel is at our heart, and the call on our lives is to speak up for those who have no voice; for the poor and needy and for the persecuted. These are our brothers and sisters. They're people - you'd be in that position yourself Jon if you were in that country and those countries. We'd all be in that position ourselves. Just going to church in a place like Eritrea will get you arrested and put in jail or even worse - put in a hole in the ground or a shipping container in the heat of the dessert. That's the price that many of them are paying for their faith. We who have freedom have a responsibility to use it wisely.

Jonathan: Is it a losing battle, I mean, is it all doom and gloom, or are there some kind of light areas where the things that have been bad in the past have begun to turn around and perhaps nations have been more tolerant?

Andrew: It comes and goes in waves you know. There are some places where you expect things to be difficult and they ease up slightly. So in some ways the situation does appear to be easing slightly in China. But in China you know it's a strange place; you can be a Christian in China but you have to agree to a whole set of restrictions which are imposed on you by the Government. If you don't agree to those restrictions, for example you can't preach about healing; you can't do any outreach; and I don't think you can read from the book of Revelation. You can't do work with children in your churches. If you are willing to abide by all of that then they leave you alone; but if you can't do that then your church can't be registered. If your church isn't registered then your church is illegal. If it is illegal the state will come and bulldoze it. They'll imprison the pastors who are involved in it. Yet we are seeing the beginnings of some increasing openness in China, but it's far too early to say that it's a major swing in the right direction. In places like Nigeria it's getting much worse. Nigeria for example is a very big nation; it's the most populist nation in Africa. It's divided roughly evenly between Muslims in the north and Christians in the south. It's a secular state; that means it's not a religious republic. Yet twelve of those states in the north have opted for Sharia; that's Islamic law. In many of those areas Christians are being driven out of their homes. Now we're seeing in the centre land of Nigeria, right in the middle of that country; Plateau State - Jos which is its capital city; we're seeing an eruption of violence there, which is very disturbing.

Jonathan: Now we talked about the rest of the world. At the event on May 1st one of the key speakers was Bishop Michael Nasir-Ali, who's fairly well known in this nation. I understand he went on to talk about the impact on the UK of what he called the spread of aggressive secularism. Obviously we think of persecution as something which only happens elsewhere in the world; but it appears that in the UK it is something that has been highlighted quite a bit recently. You know there was this Christian preacher who was arrested recently for saying that homosexuality was a sin. It's not a law that you're not allowed to say that but he was arrested and it was even caught on video that the policeman thought it was a law. It's obviously been dismissed now, but that's just a most recent example highlighting that sense if you like of persecution. Tell me a little bit of your opinion. Do you think that is an increasing threat in our nation?

Andrew: I think we need to be very clear about where persecution begins and ends. I'm not quite sure how the dictionary would define it, but I'd try and define it like this. Persecution to me is when you are violently opposed because of your faith. So in places in many countries around the world we see Christians in jail because they refuse to give up their faith. They refuse to surrender it. We've seen Christians martyred. Now that's violent persecution. For me I would see persecution would usually have that hallmark of violence with it. What I think we're seeing in the UK; personally I would say it's not persecution, but - it may be the beginnings of it. I'd call it discrimination. Certainly for people who are losing their job and we're finding there are people who are losing their jobs. For example Gary MacFarlane recently who was working for Relate, he was a counsellor. He was asked hypothetically whether he would be able to offer practical sexual advice to homosexual couples. He said look as a Christian I can't do that and because of that he lost his job. Now he may feel persecuted, but I think objectively we'd have to say actually that's discrimination. It could well be the thin end of the wedge. Certainly organisations like Christian Institute and CCFON, Christian Care for our Nation, are documenting case after case after case where Christians are standing up and saying, in all conscience I cannot do what you are asking me to do and because they wish to exercise their freedom of conscience, they're unable to do the job; they're being stood down from their jobs. There are examples of people who wear a cross at work. A nurse was dismissed and her case upheld actually, upheld against her, that it was regarded as a health and safety hazard to wear a small cross at work; doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense to me. There've been a number of cases like this that where for the fear of offending other people, those who wear some symbol of their faith are being refused to do it. If they don't take their symbol off they lose their job. That's discrimination by anybody's account; and where those things begin, it could be the start of a path which leads us down the road to persecution. But I wouldn't say we're there yet and I know Bishop Michael Nasir-Ali wouldn't say we're there yet either. I mean his own experience was, brought up in Pakistan in a house where one was a Muslim; one of his parents was a Muslim the other was a Christian. He became a Christian, became a Bishop; faced such pressure and harassment in Pakistan that he had to leave that country. Now he would draw the line at saying what happened to him was persecution. He'd say, well it was very difficult when we had to leave; but there were threats made against his family. So he understands first hand what this is all about. He can see evidence of this happening in the UK; but there is one area where Christians are being persecuted in the UK; it's a minority; very small number, but it's very worrying. It's exactly the same circumstances that Release International was seeing happening overseas. Its people from Asian backgrounds living in the UK whose families were Muslim or are Muslim and they are becoming Christians. They're changing their faith. Now these stories are very under reported because it's just too dangerous for the individuals; but there're cases for example of refugees from Afghanistan who came to the UK; became Christians in the UK, and who've been attacked and hospitalised because they changed their faith. There have been a number of others like that, usually from Muslim backgrounds that've been attacked by their families or by relatives or by people who knew them well. That is violent, that is persecution and it is happening, mercifully in small numbers, but it is happening in the UK.

Jonathan: Finally, if anybody reading is a Christian Andrew, perhaps they're concerned at what they hear of a rise of discrimination. What advice would you give them - encouraging them how to outwork their life?

Andrew: I think these things can only flourish if we do nothing. It's when good people do nothing that evil prospers. So we do actually have to get involved. We have to stand up for what we believe. I'm not talking about being strident or aggressive or you know on a mission and a pain in the neck; but we do have to say hang on a second that isn't right. It isn't right because of these things. We have a mandate to be salt and light. We have a mandate to speak up for those who have no voice. I tell you, unless as Christians we speak up for those around us who are being marginalised; we too one day may find ourselves marginalized. If all of that sounds a bit political, I'm sorry, it's not about party politics, but it is about engagement in society and defending our basic freedoms. There are two key freedoms we have to defend as Christians, if we're not going to lose them. One is our freedom of conscience. We have to be free to do what we believe to be right without fear of being punished as a result of it; the second, and they go hand in hand, is freedom of speech. We have to be able to say, speak the truth in love as the Bible says, but we have to be able to speak it. If we can't speak it, if we're forced to hold our tongue, because of fear of offending others even when there is no intention to offend in our hearts, then we've lost fundamental rights in this nation. These things are enormously important and we need to be defending them. So if you see it, speak up about it. Get engaged. Get involved.