Jon Bellamy spoke with Mal Fletcher

Mal: Well of the course the great attraction of the internet is that it is interactive isn't it? It's what's called the architecture of participation. So these days, highly sophisticated internet and PC games are not just games they're actually immersive role playing activities. If young men - and you mentioned in your introduction about the stats, when it comes to young men mistreating their girlfriends - if young men are constantly immersed in a world where women are either subjugated or seen as objects, then they're going to develop a psychology around that and it will be very difficult for them to develop the kind of respect and tenderness and affection that you need in a real relationship.

Jonathan: I guess the thing is, as this gets younger and younger, because you're looking at five, six, seven year olds being influenced in such a strong way, that's kind of the years when we're so influenced by people around us that it lasts for the rest of our lifetime.

Mal: That's right. That's when our self-image is formed. That brings us to the other point that the Home Office review talked about, which is material that's specifically targeting children. A good example is advertising that sometimes features young girls made up to look like miniature adults, sometimes posed in very inappropriate provocative ways. Child psychologists warn us that this kind of thing often leads to an obsession with physical appearance; and that in turn can give rise to eating disorders. We know that more and more children under the age of ten are falling victim to eating disorders. Most kids of course, thankfully, won't go that far; but if they're concerned about their appearance, it can often lead them to withdraw from sporting activities; and that leads to other problems like obesity.

Jonathan: What about the role of education then Mal, because obviously our schools have a strong influence over children; and the government has suggested many preventative measures in the area of teenage pregnancies relating to education. Last year we heard that sex education was to be made compulsory for all fifteen year olds. Under these new laws to be enforced in 2011, schools are going to teach about the importance of marriage, civil partnerships, stable relationships and family life, as well as how to have sex. Do you think this is a right approach?

Mal: Look I don't think that any state initiative can take the place of what should happen in the home. Now I just need to say here that obviously it doesn't happen in every home. There are many homes where there isn't good sex education, and children aren't given the right information about relationship. They're not seeing perhaps relationship being lived out and modelled before their eyes. So in that case there definitely is a need for someone to step in and fill the gap. But the ideal situation is that it happens in the home and not in any state run institution, whether it's education or medicine or any other. I think at any time when a government starts making it harder for parents to do that, to do their job as parents, then the government needs to take a backward step and if you like, pull back from the brink a little bit. I do think educators have a role to play, specifically, though not so much in being the primary information giver when it comes to relationships; that should happen in the home. But it's supporting what kids should be learning in the home and being there when kids are obviously not picking it up at home; being there to provide something. I just think some of it today is getting a little bit too graphic. Some of the stuff being done in classrooms is in itself pushing the boundaries of propriety in terms of sexualising children.

Jonathan: How do you think people should respond to that, because that would be a very real concern for parents who perhaps don't agree with some of that impropriety, if they have that sense of value? Should they make a response to that?

Mal: I think that parents can and should do as much as possible to be involved in their children's education full stop and that involves their sexual education. I think again, it's a well rounded approach from parents that's needed. They shouldn't isolate sexuality as one aspect of a child's development and just constantly focus on that. It's one part of the overall education. But parents, if they see their children coming home with material that they don't think is appropriate, they should be able to say to the school, look I don't think this is appropriate for my child; I don't believe that this is the way to go and do it in a positive proactive rather than a reactionary way. At the same time, the greatest key for a parent is to be there for your own children; to be proactive so that you get in ahead of what they're hearing elsewhere. If they are coming back with material or information you don't like, to be on hand to correct any misconceptions they might be picking up.

Jonathan: As a baby boomer Mal, what have been the main changes that you've seen over time when it comes to the sexualisation of children?

Mal: Yes. Well thank you for reminding me of that. I really appreciate that.

Jonathan: That's alright.

Mal: I was counting the wrinkles.

Jonathan: I didn't give your age away. I was giving a general region.

Mal: Yes well I'm sort of on the young end of the baby boomers but still we're ancient now aren't we. We're walking with dinosaurs. Look I think if anything we baby boomers are to blame for a lot of the sexualisation we are seeing today. We were the ones you know that banged on about make love not war, make babies not bombs and started to live as if there was no tomorrow. We really did follow the existentialist mindset; which is there is no higher meaning in life than just do what you can while you can, enjoy as many good experiences before you die. So we've set up this existentialist mindset that runs much of the way through pop culture today and is manifesting itself in terms of sexualisation among other things in the culture. So I really do think that we have to step back a little bit now and stop being so 'liberal' in some of our approaches. We don't want to go back to the days when people didn't talk about sex; when it was a hidden thing you know in a cupboard or somewhere, but we do need to be a little more circumspect and I think most of us who are parents know this now. We need to be careful because children are not equipped to deal with certain things that should be reserved for adults. It doesn't matter what age you live in; doesn't matter how digital the world becomes, how interconnected it becomes, some things just do not change and one of them is that children need to be allowed to be children.

Jonathan: Final question Mal. Arguably, if you look at movies for example, the ratings of movies say twenty, thirty years ago; something that would have been an 18, ten years ago, would have been 15, could possibly even be a 12 today in terms of certificate. Perhaps that reflects something of our changes. If this isn't looked at seriously, what do you foresee as the consequences to our children and nation in the future?

Mal: Well I mean there are many consequences. First of all it has to be said that the health of any society can be judged by how it treats it's most vulnerable members; that's often been said. Nobody's more vulnerable, more dependent than a child. I think how we treat children says a great deal about the sanity of our society. Any society that seems intent on destroying the innocence of its children, I think is in a way destroying its own future and can't be considered a healthy culture or healthy society. I think that movies, like gaming - we just need a much tighter regulation on what age children are allowed to see what kinds of material. I've sat in movies sometimes, maybe you have and thought how did that get a 15 rating? You know if I had a fourteen year old daughter sitting here I wouldn't want her to be watching this; I'm not even sure I want to watch this. So I do think that's an area where government really can do something that parents can't do; it can make much firmer recommendations and pay much more attention I think to what people like child psychologists are telling us about the dangers of over sexualisation when it comes to children.

Jonathan: Mal thank you very much for your commentary; some great thoughts there. If people want some more on this topic I believe you've got more on your website.

Mal: Yes. If people go to www.2020plus.net there's some material there that might be helpful.