Emily Parker spoke with Zoe Clark-Coates, about the loss of her five babies and her desire to help others grieving the loss of a child; through to her book Saying Goodbye, and the launch of the Mariposa Trust.

Moving through each stage of grief the only way to do it is face it. That means talking about it; allow your brain to come to terms with what you've gone through, the trauma associated with what you've gone through, as well as grieving a baby, or any other person that you might be grieving. This doesn't just apply to babies. You've got to look the pain in the eye, don't run from it. I'm going to weep when I need to weep. I'm going to be real. I'm going to tell people it hurts. And the more you talk about it, the more your brain starts to accept, ok, I can live with it; I can accept it as part of who I am going forward. Because you are always changed by loss, you are always changed by grief. The more you don't run from that, try and reach back to the person you were, the more you embrace this new you, the easier it is.

Keep talking about it; don't be scared about it and don't be worried about what other people might think. Often people will say aren't you over it yet? Aren't you moving through it yet? And that makes people feel ashamed when they are journeying through grief, because as soon as you say aren't you over it, aren't you back to normal, it makes people think well actually should I be? Am I not grieving at a fast enough rate? You have to get to a point where you don't think about that anymore, you just say, it doesn't matter what anybody thinks, I'll go through it at my own rate, I'll walk my own path, I'll walk my own journey. And through that, that's how you'll find your smile again.

Andy, Zoe and Esme

Emily: You and your husband decided to give a name to each of the babies that you lost. Where did that idea come from?

Zoe: I'm a big believer whenever you lose your baby, it's a child, it doesn't matter however early or late it is. That's controversial for some, especially people who believe that a baby doesn't come into existence until it's born. We don't believe that. We believe the fact that as soon as you've conceived your child, your baby starts to grow. That's your baby so of course you'd name that child. Why wouldn't you? You can't talk about that child as just a 'miscarriage' or whatever type of loss you've had. It's your child. Every person deserves a name, so it's a completely natural thing for us to name every one of our babies. But also, through my training as a counsellor, it's very much encouraged as well. Everybody deserves a name and even outside of a Christian context, from a secular point of view, it is encouraged to help you through grief.

Emily: So you named your children Cobi, Darcy, Bailey, Samuel and Isabella, those were the babies that you lost. How do you choose to still remember the babies today?

Zoe: They are part of our family. They'll always be part of our family. They might not be here. I'm a big believer that there is a heaven and that one day we'll be reunited with our children. So coming at it from an angle of a faith perspective, for me, they've just gone ahead of us. Many people don't believe that is the case. So for us, I remember them now with a smile. I remember the fact that they were here for a very short amount of time, but they changed us forever and one day we'll be back with them.

Emily: The Christmas when Darcy passed away, from reading your book, it seems your parents were and continue to be an incredible support. They were able to give you space and be real with what you were walking through. Tell me a little bit more about that time, but also if you have any advice for friends or family who are seeing their loved ones walk through miscarriage.

Zoe: It's incredibly hard for families. My Mum, as I said, is a therapist counsellor, so she was trained in how to support. But at the time we were going through all that loss, she was bereaved; she was as broken as we were, seeing her daughter going through what we were. They were grieving the grandchildren they were losing. So even though she was professionally trained, she definitely struggled during that time.

The one thing she was acutely aware of, was the fact that we needed to keep talking, so she was really encouraging us to keep speaking, to not be scared of broaching the subject. The conversation was never off limits. They encouraged us and allowed us to be completely real with our pain. They never asked us to pretend that we were ok. They were completely open to us talking, whenever we needed to and however much we needed to, which is a really helpful thing for all families.

It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking that if someone's not talking about the loss or pain, they don't want to talk about it, that it's better not to go near that subject in case it upsets. But actually when you talk to somebody about someone they've lost, they welcome that the majority of the time, because we all want to talk about the things that happen in our lives, things that are important to us. And is there anything more important to somebody than their children, whether they're here or not? So never be afraid of broaching the subject.

Don't give platitudes, or clichés like, well at least you can get pregnant, or, I'm sure your baby is in a better place now. All of those things are really offensive to bereaved people and grieving parents. As soon as you say your baby's in a better place now, that says your home wasn't good enough for them. Our neighbours who have got children, their home is better than ours, is it because they've got their children? It's easy to fall into the trap of wanting to make somebody feel better, so you try and grasp at straws, things that you think are hope filled, like at least you can have children, and get pregnant. You think that's a positive twist on it, but actually it's not. For the people that are hearing it, it really hurts; it's a stab to the heart. Everyone said to me, at least you can get pregnant and all I wanted to scream was yes, but there's no point in getting pregnant if you can't stay pregnant. So try and avoid anything like that.

Just sit with people. Say, I'll sit with you, I'll hold the tissues while you cry. Don't pretend you get it if you don't get it, but be acutely aware of the agony that person is in. Don't try and make them feel better. Just let them be in the place they are and make them feel totally comfortable that it's ok to be in that place.

Practically, offer them support in the house for instance. My parents said let us do the cleaning for you, let us cook for you. Things like that are just so amazing when you're in a fog of grief and when you're bereaved. You don't really care about having a clean house, so to have somebody make sure your house is clean is really great; making sure there's a hot meal on the table if they want it is so helpful. So offer practical assistance; don't just say to someone call me if you need me, because often they won't. People don't want to pick up the phone, we strive to be independent, so it's hard to reach out to somebody and ask for practical support in that way. I'd always encourage every family member, or church member, or anyone, to offer practical assistance and be specific with it, don't leave it open ended.

Emily: In the book you have put in a 90 day daily devotional. What was the journey in how you ended up piecing those 90 days together?