Emily Graves spoke with Andy Flannagan about the Show Up campaign

Andy: Well first of all because it's not too difficult to make a difference in politics. I think there are loads of examples in the book where single people or groups of people have made a huge difference to various policies, to various areas of the country. It's clear, the evidence is there, but number two I think we have got to be clear that we are called to demonstrate. It's not just a practical and logistical functional thing, we are called to govern; we are made in the image of God. There is a whole section in the book all about the biblical basis of being involved in government. We are called to govern because we are made in the image of God. He governs and so we govern. It's promised that we shall be kings and priests living with him for eternity and this is just a little practice for that. We are called to demonstrate that future perfection and to demonstrate that good government. There may be times when we are swimming against the tide and we feel like we won't have an impact, but nevertheless we are called to do what is right; we are called to live with integrity and lead with integrity. Sometimes we end up just following rather than doing the leading that we are called to and making the impact that Jesus made in his society.

Emily: You give the example in the book of the Scottish Referendum and how when polling day came 84.59% of the population actually showed up to vote. You then go on to say in reference to the percentage that, "They are figures that political geeks like me can only dream of". Why is that? Do we not value our vote?

Andy: I think that the Scottish Referendum shows that when every vote counts that people do turn up to vote. I think part of the problem of disenchantment with politics is our voting system, where somebody can live in a safe seat area and feel that their votes don't really count and that is something we need to address. I think that is something really important to address. I would have been in favour of the AV referendum going through, but sadly it was voted down. It was just a few years ago so we did get an opportunity to change it and sadly we didn't change the system, so I think that is a major hurdle that we need to get over.

I think generally people need to know that their votes count and they need to know how precious it is, that people have fought for the right to vote. Democracy is a precious thing. I'll never forget standing as a candidate in Vassell in North Brixton and going round visiting people, knocking at doors and realising there are very few people knocking on people's doors, giving them an opportunity to feel connected to the bigger picture. Then I felt bad because I am only knocking on their door because I'm looking for their vote, but then I thought, I feel it's really good that somebody like me is coming somewhere like here to hear the joys and the struggles of these folks before I deem to represent them. In that moment it was kind of the imperfect beauty of democracy that really landed on me. It is a precious thing that we live in a democracy; it's a precious thing that we can get rid of our leaders if we need to and I think that is something we shouldn't take lightly. You don't need to look far across the world to see situations where that's not the case and I think it is something as believers we should be really thankful for.

Emily: Do we need to see more Christians getting involved in Government?

Andy: Yes absolutely. I think we are really good at lobbying. I think we are really good at shouting from the outside. We are not so good at getting on the pitch and working with people who we might not necessarily agree with. We need to find common cause; we won't agree to everything that other people agree with. I often say, there is one party that I agree with 100% of their policies and it's called the Andy Flannagan Party and there is only one member. That's the thick end of the wedge you get to when you are thinking about this. We too easily stay away from working with folks that we don't necessarily agree with on everything. We don't agree with everything our husband or wife believes; certainly we don't agree with everything that everybody in our church believes, but we find common cause and we work together. Sometimes we draw these kind of fake lines as Christians though - we would get involved, but if we got involved there we would be polluted and compromised. The reality is that we are polluted and compromised. We all live in this world and every time you put petrol in your car you are supporting some pretty shocking Middle Eastern state that oppress women and Christians. Every time you shop in a large supermarket, you are supporting some potentially shocking practices with local and global producers and so we can't escape the system, we are part of it. We are inevitably polluted and corrupted, the choice is whether we get stuck in and get involved to see it changed or not.

Emily: When deciding which party to support, what key biblical principles should we look for in helping us to make that sort of decision?

Andy: I think it is really important to be very prayerful and to be very biblical in how we look at it. The book has a stretch through scriptures; it goes through all 66 books of the Bible and talks about how in each of those books there are areas and passages that show us how passionate God is about Governments. It's obviously a subject that he cares passionately about, so the reality is that different people will read the scriptures and come to different conclusions politically in terms of what they think should happen in the economic system and what should happen on more individual issues and Christians do come to different conclusions. I think it is really important to be prayerful. I think it is also very important to follow how God leads in terms of relationships. It is very easy to get stuck on the fence and procrastinate saying, "I don't know what party to join so I won't join any". Sometimes you need to pick a horse and get on it. There is no perfect party, so sometimes you just need to get stuck in. I know that's been the case for a lot of people I know who have got involved and they have really seen the fruit of that. God has led them through relationships and if they thought there was somebody here they could bless or there is somebody here I could impact then that's another way to think about it; not just staring at the policies and trying to work out which is right.

Sometimes we get paralyzed as Christians, especially at the run up to an election because we think our only job is to try and work out which party is most Christian and which one should a Christian vote for. Nobody has worked that out for 120 years. Every party is imperfect, but what is more important than who to vote for is to actually get involved with one of them, because then some of those policies that frustrate you this time round they might be changed by next time round because you have been involved.

I often say, "My bath has never got cleaner by me standing outside of it and saying be clean", it's only ever got cleaner by me getting into it and scrubbing it. I think that is an important thing to bear in mind. All through the book there are stories of people who have got involved and who have made a difference. I really hope those stories will be encouraging to folks. They are folks that I know, they are not just picked from the atmosphere. I know they are full on believers. I just hope those things also deconstruct some of the reasons why we often don't get involved. I hear lots of reasons why Christians don't get involved and so we've systematically gone through those in the book and deconstructed them: 'Oh it's a dirty game', 'they are all on the make', 'it's so boring', 'it's not a priority for a church' - all these reasons we hear quoted and I go through and unpack those things and say, "Well I hear what you are saying...but have you looked at it this way?" It's telling the other side of the story rather than what we hear through the media.

Emily: In the book you also quote a famous African proverb that is - if you want to go fast go it alone, but if you want to go far, go together. Is this true for today's society?

Andy: Yes, I use that proverb when I am training our folks who come through. A big part of my job is training a lot of the younger political folks coming through, trying to put some theological spine in them; trying to get them praying together and working together. The opposite spirit is the spirit of tribalism and self-promotion and power hungriness and everybody knows about that in politics. You can't swim against that tide on your own though, you have got to do that with other people and so I am continually saying to our trainees, you cannot do this on your own, if you want to go fast then go on your own, but if you want to go far; if you want this thing to last; if you want it to be sustainable then we have got to go together and work on this stuff together. I think that's changing the way people are looking at politics. I think when people are supporting one another and are going to champion one another rather than competing against one another, then I think that has a profound impact. I think that people start to take note when they see Christians operating in a different way to all the other folks who are getting involved.

Emily: So I presume therefore that's why you believe that Kingdom should come before tribe?

Andy: Yes, absolutely. One of the key ways that hopefully Christians shine in this sphere is by, yes, our policies are different, but we won't be slagging off somebody from the other side and "we will be playing the man not the ball", as the saying goes. We will be treating people with respect; we will make the case and the argument, but we will do it with grace and with a smile on our face. It's really important. I have been at Spring Harvest standing on a stage with my colleagues, Claire Mathis and the Lib-Dem Christian Forum and Colin Bloom from the Conservative Christian Fellowship. We are standing together saying that 'Kingdom comes before tribe'. Some of those Christians just don't get that and wonder how we can be part of those different parties and yet still be praying together and working together. But we are because we are passionate about Kingdom values being at the heart of Government and that being expressed through all the different parties. Yes, there is a good thing going on in politics and I just hope people catch on to that. Please visit the website and grab the book that is available from the website and from the usual stockists.