Heather Bellamy spoke with Norman Drummond, a chaplain to the Queen in Scotland and founder of the charity 'Columba 1400' about the need for quiet and reflection in living a successful life.

Norman Drummond

Norman Drummond is a chaplain to the Queen in Scotland, founder of an international business coaching consultancy and also founder of the charity Columba 1400, helping business leaders and disadvantaged young people work together to learn more about themselves. Having now released his book Step Back Heather Bellamy spoke with him about what stepping back looks like and the impact stepping back in life has had on business leaders and those from tough realities.

Heather: You have an interesting work background. What is it like being a chaplain to the Queen in Scotland?

Norman: It's a great honour. It's a very quiet, understated relationship. Ten of us in Scotland have been privileged to be invited to be chaplain until the age of 70, when we kind of fall off the perch! It's a great honour to serve Her Majesty in whatever way we can.

Heather: So what do you do? What does it mean to be a chaplain for the Queen?

Norman: In many ways it's an honorary position. We also have opportunities on occasions, together with our fellow Scottish Chaplains, as indeed with our English Chaplains, to preach before her Majesty and the Royal family. It's a relationship as with any pastoral relationship, that remains very much a private one; one that is well guarded and well appreciated, we trust.

Heather: In your other role with Columba 1400, what happens when you bring together disadvantaged young people and business leaders?

Norman: It's amazing. I think there are more lessons learned in the unexpected ways. You might think that youngsters from tough realities would be there to learn more, but actually so many people are working so hard in their busy business lives that they rarely get a chance to look at what society around them is doing, or what is happening there. Very often a business leader, or someone who is in work, will learn far more from someone who is out of work. The co-coaching, as we would call it, will be in a reverse way. They will often keep in touch after their Gemini Leadership Academy at Columba 1400 and we have had very positive results, not only for businesses, but for families and for communities.

Heather: What sort of things do they learn about themselves?

Norman: In terms of their own self-awareness we have six core values: awareness, focus, creativity, integrity, perseverance and all leading to service. Very often people who have come from a tough reality, or people who are very busy with the rest of their lives find that they have it within themselves to take a new step forward. They recognise that in self-forgetfulness is self-fulfilment. It's often when we discover that our lives can be of use in service to others that we realise that we are valued and respected and loved. Hence the title of my new book, ''Step Back: Finding The Way Forward In Life'.

Heather: So what difference has your social enterprise and charity made to young people, can you give us some stories?

Norman: We have over 9,000 graduates across Scotland and the United Kingdom and we also have two satellite operations, one in Australia and one in South Africa. We will often have people getting in touch with us, because it has now become quite a Columban family, where people will stay in touch and they will begin to share their stories. If one has come from a tough reality and doesn't have much support in life, then to know that there is a Columban out there alongside you, whom you can speak with about coherent core values, such as those I've mentioned, it can be of enormous personal support and encouragement. A very high percentage of people go back to live lives of meaning and purpose, very often getting into work, or college and very pleasingly finding restitution within broken relationships in a family or community context.

Heather: You say that you want everyone who comes on retreat with you to feel they can be the captain of their soul and the master of their fate. How can people be that when so many outside influences affect their lives?

Norman: I think your question underestimates the power of the human soul, particularly if infused by a spirit of unselfishness, leadership and of service. When we think of all the tragedies and disasters that come and go, the human soul somehow finds its way through, does it not? There is nothing more alarming and disappointing in life than to see either within oneself, or within others, a sense of despair, or hopelessness.

People come alive when they 'Step Back' to find their way forward. When people take some time away at one of our leadership centres; when they get a chance to review what they've done in their lives; to become aware of what's gone wrong; to focus in on what needs to be addressed; to then have the courage and the creativity to begin a new programme of their lives, helpfully set up by Columban instructors and helpers and then to have the integrity and the perseverance to stick at it - when that is all in place then one finds that people come alive. It's almost as if sinews return to muscles and people begin to become more cheerful and positive about themselves and their peers and surroundings. That's a wonderful thing to see as I'm sure you can imagine.